Mentors are the secret ingredient of our leadership programmes. For National Mentoring Day, we talked to three mentor pairs about building trust, challenging both ways, and connecting the personal and the professional.
All candidates on leadership programmes at Future of Greater Manchester and sister organisation Future of London are paired with a mentor.
We believe this is an important relationship that’s separate from work colleagues, your professional network, friends or family. It’s a fresh perspective with the possibility of challenge from someone with more experience who isn’t your boss.
The mentoring relationship can also be a safe space to consider the bigger picture and discuss issues outside the day job, including your next career move.
For National Mentoring Day on 27 October, we asked mentors and mentees how they got on and what they talked about. Everything, they said! Here are the highlights from some open and wide-ranging conversations.
Greig Lees is Head of Development Delivery (North) at The Guinness Partnership. He graduated from GM Leaders Plus 4 in January 2024. His mentor was Jacqueline Esimaje-Heath, Growth Director at L&Q. Our executive director Lisa Taylor interviewed them separately.
Lisa: What would you say about your mentoring relationship?
Greig: I found the whole experience really positive. It was a very good match personality-wise and I found Jackie really easy to talk to. Obviously, you talk to friends or colleagues but there are certain thoughts and ideas it’s useful to bounce around in a safe space.
I was a little apprehensive, because I’m with Guinness and Jacqui’s with L&Q and we were potentially bidding for the same site. But we quickly agreed that’s not something that would be part of our discussions.
Jacqui: I think it went really well. Greig was clear about what he was hoping to get out of it. I was quite clear in setting out what I felt I could offer. Then we agreed to play it by ear: “We start with these objectives, but we’ll see how it goes.”
We had good chats about everything: the course, their presentations, work, his organisation, where he saw himself going. He talked about leadership – Greg has that brilliant technical expertise, but you can start to think beyond your remit, to the constraints, challenges and opportunities for the organisation.
Was there anything you took away from mentoring as opposed to other learning channels?
Greig: Definitely. Speaking to Jacqui was valuable because it got me to reflect a lot more on what I do as an individual and as a leader. Sometimes you’re just ploughing your own furrow. Jacqui really helped me to think about the bigger picture.
What might you say to a mentee who finds it hard to open up who or might not trust the process?
Greig: Go in very open-minded. I prepared an agenda and we talked about a lot: professional and family challenges, the north-south divide, challenges of working across regions and organisations. It’s down to the individual to think about what they want to learn or be challenged on.
Jacqui, what would you say to a peer who’s unsure about mentoring?
I would say you’ve got a lot to offer, and you don’t realise how much until you start mentoring. Listening to people’s challenges, you’ll find you’ve had a similar experience and can apply those things. Fear of failure can be a really good area to talk about with a mentee.
Is there anything you found different about mentoring with us?
Greig: One of my biggest takeaways was the range of people involved. I think you probably get the most from having that broad network – and we’re still in touch. You can also build relationships with people you might not be exposed to, like [former] GMCA Chief Executive Eamonn Boylan.
Jacqui, what did you get out of it as a mentor?
For me, it was having a discussion without agenda. Obviously, you want your mentee to gain something. But I found it quite freeing, just having a time out to chat about what life can be like at work and how we might do things differently.
Did you run into any challenges?
Jacqui: No, Greig was initially concerned about conflict of interest but we discussed it and he was reassured. If you think there’s a conflict, you can anonymise things; change the context so you can have the conversation but don’t feel like you’re giving away trade secrets. I think there’s enough room for all of us to learn from each other.
Sometimes people may feel disloyal to say ‘my organisation is messy’, but often a mentor can help by saying, ‘Nothing is perfect.’
Yes – people can also have strong feelings when they think they messed up. What was actually breaking down, as opposed to just the outcome? What might you do differently? Helping the person reflect can allow them to explore more about a situation.
Is there anything you believe is key to a successful mentoring relationship?
Being open, but also housekeeping! Greig did this very well. Recognise as a mentee that we’re having the relationship because of what you need. Take control of that – and understand what is perfect vs. what is good in terms of when and where you meet.
Do you believe mentoring is an important aspect of making better places?
Yes! It’s the best way to quickly understand context and strategy, and gives exposure you might not get in your day job. For instance, providing a one-page summary to a board – someone may have done exactly that, but the information is useless to that audience. Mentoring is a good way to get that perspective, because suddenly you’re talking to someone who’s operating at that level.
Download the full interview here, especially if you’re about to join Leaders Plus!
Ryan Tracey is Work & Skills Specialist at Manchester City Council and graduated from GM Future Leaders in July 2024. His mentor was Debra Cooper, Banking & Finance Partner at Hill Dickinson. Lisa Taylor spoke with them together.
Lisa: What were you expecting from mentoring, Ryan?
Ryan: I thought I was going to get paired with someone from local government, which was right in my comfort zone. Then you emailed to say “Actually, I’ve got this woman from a completely different sector and stage of her career. But I think it could work well.” And I thought, “Yeah, embrace that,” because the programme is about challenging your ideas as a leader. I was a little nervous, but when I met Deb, that melted away, because she was really easy to connect with.
Lisa: How did you make him feel at ease in that first meeting?
Debra: I think I make most people feel at ease but I could also see a lot of myself in Ryan. Looking back, I would have sat there with a list and been ready to work out what I wanted to get out of speaking to somebody else. So I thought, “I just need to break you out of your comfort zone.”
We spoke about everything, including personal life. Mentoring isn’t just looking at the nine to five; it’s everything that goes around that too. Ryan’s got one young kid and one that landed in the middle of the course which wasn’t straightforward. That plays a massive role; I’ve been there and done that, so could pass that on.
Lisa: You talked about getting Ryan out of his comfort zone. What did you do?
Debra: We reflected on the past five years, acknowledging that what you’ve done is good, but if you don’t do anything different, how will you feel? I made him write a five-year plan. Do you want to be where you are now in five years? If you want to change things, what are we going to do to get there?
Ryan: I did start with all my questions, but Deb was really good at working through that as part of our conversation. For instance, we went on a three-mile walk for one session, which was brilliant, because you’re walking around and you talk about everything. I think I referred to my notebook twice, and when I got back and reviewed it, all my questions had been answered naturally.
Deb was also really good at being conversational, but right in the middle of it being challenging and direct.
Debra: There was a bit of cross-sector thinking, where in my world, you progress by bringing something extra. That was a mindset switch for you – and switching from just people-pleasing to taking care of yourself.
Ryan: I’d also sort of curated a professional world separate from the private, but in my five-year plan, there was a lot about personal stuff. It took a lot for me to share that, but we got to a point where I felt at ease doing that, and got great feedback.
Lisa: What are the ingredients for working with a different gender, sector or level?
Debra: I think you both need to be open-minded and genuine. I’ve come across mentors – not at Future of GM – who say: “This is how I did it and this is what you need to do. I’ll see you in six months.” I’m genuinely interested to see what your career does and how it fits into the built environment.
Ryan: Learning from someone in the private sector was always going to be beneficial. On the gender thing, our director, Angela, is hard-working, inspiring and leads by example. Women don’t lead with a hammer; you want to follow them because of the results.
Lisa: If you met someone who’s just joined the course and said, I don’t need mentoring, or want it, or I’m not sure what to do… what would you say?
Debra: No matter how senior you are, you should always be trying to develop. If you’re offered somebody who will give you a view on where you could get to and help you get there – why you wouldn’t embrace that?
Lisa: What would you say to someone who’s considering mentoring?
Debra: I’d say do it, but before you commit, why do you want to be a mentor? Is it an ego trip? In which case, no. Is it about making your CV look good? That’s a no. You genuinely need to want to do it and to learn about people.
Lisa: What part do you think mentoring plays in delivering better places?
Ryan: I’m all for it. We need more people to climb the ladder then open doors for others. Mentoring can support that. We’ll probably have to stop recruiting for a few years depending on budgets, so you have to develop the talent you’ve got and be inclusive.
Debra: Every sector has its own way of doing things, so it’s good to hear different views and challenges and to share how to overcome them. I think mentoring is also important to counter the effect Covid had.
Ryan: We had conversations about how Covid affected me; I thought I stalled.
Debra: I did challenge you on that. You didn’t retreat as much as you thought you had, and you’d showed leadership during Covid, but you didn’t remember it that way, did you?”
Ryan: You were really good at listening, then challenging what I’d just said, which put me on the back foot in a good way.
Lisa: Those coaching approaches are also a useful way to develop your thinking on values.
Ryan: Yeah, core values was a running theme. I thought about it but never listed them. Obviously, family, ambition, integrity, stuff like that, which lets me say “How does this decision match up to my values?” In the end, I built them into my five-year plan.
Debra: If you haven’t got values, you’ll be a crap leader, because you’ll just lead based on whoever’s paying you at that point or whoever you’re trying to impress. For me, leadership is being authentic and true.
Download the full interview here, especially if you’re about to join Future Leaders!
Fabrizio Stefanoni is a Senior Development Manager at Lovell in London. He graduated from Leaders Plus 9 in 2021 and mentored Lauren Heath, who graduated from Future London Leaders 35 in early 2024. Lauren was at Hyde and is now Senior Construction Consultant at Lidl GB. They were interviewed by Rhianna Malcolm, Policy & Research Officer at Campbell Tickell, who graduated from FoL’s Emerging Talent Programme in 2023.
Rhianna: What did you think about the mentoring relationship with Lauren? Why do you think you two were paired?
Fabrizio: Probably the main reason we were paired was that Lauren wanted to work on presenting to large groups. That’s something I successfully overcame and Future of London knew that – I’m an alumni myself.
Another reason would be how we profile. I was profiled as a quiet person – the most important thing for me is making sure others around me are ok. Whereas it looked to me that Lauren was more of an achiever – a ‘let’s get it done’ person. We came from those different perspectives. I really enjoyed seeing the way she does things and learned a lot.
What would you say is the biggest thing you got from the relationship?
The thing that impacted me most was Lauren’s Proposal for London [on Healthy Hoardings]. As an architect, I’m driven a lot by having to leave a mark, and therefore to doing things very complicatedly. Lauren’s proposal was the most simple idea, and yet so impactful. It just reminded me that it is very easy to be carried away, whereas the simplest solution is probably the best solution.
What motivated you to be a mentor?
I’m at a stage in my career where I’ve achieved a lot of what I wanted to. While my career has changed many times over the last 25 years, my current role is extremely fulfilling. Therefore, I felt I could do something for others. There’s still work to do, but I’m happy to take others on the journey – and help others help me essentially.
What qualities do you think are essential to being a good mentor?
Good communication skills, the ability to listen being the most key. Humility is also very important, not having a perception of self-importance. And – not so much of a quality, but I think something we all crave and never have – time. Give time. Look into what your mentee is interested in, especially if it’s not your expertise – reach out to your network about it.
People can find it hard to open up. How do you go about building a trusting relationship so people can be a bit more vulnerable than they are used to?
I try to gauge what the mentee perceives to be our differences, and bridge that gap. For example when I mentored a 17-year old, her perception was that I was much bigger than her, in terms of age, and achievements – and so I needed to extend my hand further to allow her to come onto my level, or I need to go down a number of steps. The mentee-mentor relationship, like any other human relationship, works best if the two individuals are on the same level.
Also , it needs to be reciprocal – the mentee needs to feel they’re giving you something too.
Rhianna: Why do you think you and Fabrizio were paired?
Lauren: Well, we work in similar industries, so in terms of expertise I’d say we were quite aligned. But we were also a good fit personality-wise – he’s an open character and very easy to talk to and I’m a talker, so that worked really well.
How has being mentored made a difference to your progression to leadership?
I feel I got exactly what I needed. I was looking for guidance on career progression, and where to go next. And that obviously came to fruition, as I’ve started this new role at Lidl.
We had this whole conversation about working for an organisation for a long time. I’d been at Hyde for 18 years, and at some point he said to me, “sometimes you just have to leave the hamster wheel, no matter how scary it is.”
That really stuck with me, because while I’ve got a very supportive network around me, hearing that from an outside source reinforced for me that sometimes it’s necessary to take a wild leap in order to keep bettering yourself.
We also worked on presentation skills, because one of the biggest things I had was about people’s perceptions of me and how I present myself. Fabrizio helped me with my self-consciousness when presenting, making me realise that everybody makes mistakes and nobody is focusing on mine except me. That built up my confidence a lot.
What advice would you give someone looking for a mentor?
Be prepared to be honest. Be prepared to take criticism, but don’t see it as criticism. See it as a learning tool. I think being open to someone challenging the norm. But also, make sure you’re in a position career-wise in which having a mentor would be useful. You have to be in a position where you can take the advice of others.